Comments on: P3 Description: Dancing Lights https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/2012/10/04/p3-description-dancing-lights/ Video Game Design and Architecture Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:31:07 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.2.2 By: asdf https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/2012/10/04/p3-description-dancing-lights/#comment-86 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 19:31:07 +0000 https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/?p=1133#comment-86 Hey Nick, this is Andrew from class. Would like to group up with you. Here’s my email:
a_darrohn@gatech.edu

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By: nwatson https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/2012/10/04/p3-description-dancing-lights/#comment-51 Sat, 06 Oct 2012 00:35:47 +0000 https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/?p=1133#comment-51 Like I said before, the unpredictability of the patterns in the video is something I hope to fix in my game. Perhaps only have bullets move in straight lines or predictable, consistent curves at constant speeds, or maybe drawing out lines where the bullets are about to move. I can also give the player a fair warning before a bullet comes in, perhaps with an arrow that appears on the screen indicating where a bullet will appear and the direction it will move in. I’ll try it in the prototype, and if it really is too hard to predict and comprehend at once, I can change the game to something like following a path that appears in accordance to the music. (Although that feels a bit close to “Osu!”)

Also, while the obstacles would be appearing and moving in accordance with the music, that does not necessarily make it a rhythm game. Games like Audiosurf have obstacles that appear in accordance to music, but the player themselves does not move with the music.

As to how I would do 2D movement, I put together a quick pre-prototype that shows the various ways of controlling your character I was going to consider for the game:

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~nwatson6/WebPlayer4.html

Controls:

1,2,3,4 keys: switch between the different controls

Control 1: Move mouse to move, object follows mouse exactly, click or shift to slow down

This is what I was thinking about going with before I made this pre-prototype, but its kind of inexact and jumpy in practice. And, as you said, a bit arbitrary.

Control 2: Move mouse to move, has a stabilizer, click or shift to follow stabilizer more exactly (faster, but more jumpy), right click or ‘Z’ to display stabilizer

This one is what I would like to go with if I can create the game as above. It’s a lot smoother, but this one is also admittedly somewhat arbitrary to implement.

Control 3: Moves like you are rolling a ball with the palm of your hand, touchpad recommended, click or shift to brake

This one might be a bit inexact for dodging obstacles, but it could make an interesting game if I decide to go with the path-following game instead.

Control 4: Moves like the stage is being tilted

Like the 3rd one, it might also be worth looking at if I go with the path following game.

Let me know what you think. I’ll have bullets to dodge in the prototype on Thursday, so I’ll see if I can make the game predictable. If you think that the character control is too simple for the assignment, let me know, and I’ll try to think of ways to spice it up (or maybe do something else).

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By: Yan Xu https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/2012/10/04/p3-description-dancing-lights/#comment-46 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 21:32:17 +0000 https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/?p=1133#comment-46 I read your post and the comments, and watched the video. The biggest problem with the youtube game is the unclear mapping between the music and the corresponding obstacles that it generates. WIthout this clear mapping, all a player needs to do is to observe the movement trajectory of obstacles and dodge them, which itself may be fun, as in the classic space invader game. But if the music does not matter any more, why do you need to take the trouble hardcoding all the obstacles based on the music? I don’t see that value this may add to a player.

In most rhythm games, such as DDR, Rock Band, and Dance Central, there are clear visual cues of the next action and feedback on whether a player misses a beat or not. This tight action-feedback loop and the support for players to observe and prepare for the next action is essential to rhythm games. Try to improve your game design along these two directions.

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By: Blair MacIntyre https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/2012/10/04/p3-description-dancing-lights/#comment-31 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:46:01 +0000 https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/?p=1133#comment-31 As I watch the video, I can’t help feel that game wouldn’t be fun, or have much replay value. The things you are dodging come in and move in a way that makes it really really hard to plan, and the person playing it seems to know it well enough to be in exactly the right spot to do well on each wave of little objects.

I get that you are trying to make it different, and perhaps it could be fun (hey, it might just be me, not the kind of game I’d like). I still have no sense of what the player interaction is going to be like, aside from really simple 2D movement to avoid a pre-planned movement of objects. Since this game video is already hard to plan against (the only way you can learn things is to play over and over and learn it, unlike say guitar hero where you see the notes coming down the track), doesn’t making the visibility limited just make it harder? It seems like it will just feel arbitrary: you can’t possibly win the first time (since you don’t have any way of anticipating the motion of the bullets since they aren’t really tied to the music in a direct way … you know they will move with the beat, but not how), and so there is no skill to develop and no sense of your actions interacting with the world in a meaningful way.

This is the problem with doing a “I want to do something like game X, but change it in this way”: you are tied too much to this game, and all it’s problems/limitations.

Anyway, ignoring whether the game itself will be fun or not (different people like different things): I still don’t see what the feel is for the character that you are prototyping. It sounds like straightforward 2D movement: is there anything novel or interesting about it? Basic 2D with no inertia/friction/etc is trivial, so what are you prototyping?

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By: nwatson https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/2012/10/04/p3-description-dancing-lights/#comment-28 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:37:47 +0000 https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/?p=1133#comment-28 Perhaps my description was a bit vague, so maybe if I show you where I got the idea from, it would help. This is a video of an “I wanna be the guy” fangame, where all you do is just dodge obstacles until the end of the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4drg7DYt7A

My game idea is something similar: I will be hard-coding obstacles’ movement in accordance to a song, and the player’s main goal is dodge them. Unlike the video, which is a platformer game, I will be giving the player freedom of movement without gravity (like a helicopter moves). The player can move as they wish, it will be the obstacles that will move with the music.

In the video above, if you get hit with one obstacle (the colored apples), you die, and have to start the level from the beginning. In my game, I hope to make it a little less difficult, allowing them some leeway if they screw up. The “hard mode” of the game would be like the video above: you are expected to dodge without hints, basically forcing you to memorize the patterns. “Easy mode” would give you a guide that would show you how to move around the stage to dodge successfully.

Also something I hope to change from the video above is the way that the obstacles often move very suddenly. I want my objects to move smoothly, and for the player to have to move smoothly with them to complete the level, giving the feel of moving around in a dance.

I hope this makes the idea a bit clearer. Let me know if you still have questions.

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By: Blair MacIntyre https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/2012/10/04/p3-description-dancing-lights/#comment-27 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 01:56:20 +0000 https://github.blairmacintyre.me/site-archive/cs4455f12/?p=1133#comment-27 I like the gestalt feeling of what you describe, but confess to not quite “getting it” yet. Are the bullets moving straight or in patterns? Am I simply following them, or is there some other pattern I need to know to “win”? How are the controls tuned to following? In a Dancing game, it’s simply “hit the rhythm” (DDR) or follow the leader in sweeping motions (Dance Central/Kinect). How does it really work here. Mouse? WASD? How do I do smooth interesting motion (without frustration) with WASD? How can I know what to do in the hard mode?

More importantly, what’s the way I can judge if I’m succeeding, and what’s the metaphor that will motivate me? In both DDR and Dance Central, it’s “dance” … I feel like (at some level) I’m dancing, and can project that feeling into the game for motivation. In Guitar Hero/Rock Band, it’s music. Even if you don’t play a real instrument (me!) you can still feel like you know what it might feel like to be in a band. I don’t see what the “feeling” is here, and why it would be satisfying to “win” …

Beyond all that, what is the feel for the player? I don’t see what it is. Your description is really focused on the atmosphere (which sounds like it could be cool!), but glosses over what the feel would be. Details about controls, please. And how they map to “following” the bullets!

So, more detail, more detail!!

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